In 2015 Christie was named Executive Director of Sports at Mastermind Lounge, LLC. According to one commentary Marys song like Hannahs declares that security and significance are found in a God who would care about the broken and poor enough to give himself to them. The wrongs I have done are not hidden from thee. But Jesus did not do any wrong. Oh, its for me? Christie requested his release from Jacksonville after a week in camp hoping to retire, but signed with the New York Giants a day later, playing what would be his final NFL season. All right. It follows that Mary is the mother of God. So then the word adelphos could also apply in this case to describe people that they have the same adoptive father, Joseph, but different mothers, Josephs first wife and his second wife. This is hard, isnt it? And I could talk about what that verse means in a lot of different context, but what is the difference between being sinful and becoming sin? And then hopefully, in my next turn, Ill be able to address some of the other arguments that Steve has raised. The only son? Christie is currently President of Relative Goal Sports and Entertainment Management LLC., certified as a Canadian Football League contract advisor and has represented numerous musical acts in both the United States and Scotland. Lets start with the last books of the Protestant Old Testament, which Christie and many other Protestants says are Ezra and Nehemiah in the fifth century B.C. Since I dont believe in the unbiblical doctrine of sola scriptura, I dont have to prove these dogmas from scripture alone. Gary Habermas: The Minimal Facts Approach To The Resurrection (June, 2013) Video Link . Steve, where can people learn more about you and the good stuff youve done? Though, I think that is a salvation issue actually. Just as we have born the image of the earthy we, which includes Mary, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. We and also, which again includes Mary. Prototokos, I dont have a problem with the term, meaning first out of the womb, but in Luke chapter two versus 22 to 23, this is a different event. Trent made the comment about the word until thats used in Second Samuel, but it uses the word [Greek 00:37:31], not [Greek 00:37:31]. He says, of Jacob and Esau in Rebeccas womb, they were not yet born and had done nothing, either good or bad.This means children who die in early childhood represent millions of examples of people who never committed a personal sin in their entire lives. According to Methodist scholar David A. deSilva, New Testament authors weave phrases and recreate lines of arguments from Apocryha books into their new texts. Drive in with The Morning Ritual weekday mornings on KNST AM790Supervisor Steve Christie explains why he endorses Abe Hamadeh, Kari Lake and others and also talks about Pima County spending . In week 1 vs. the Tennessee Titans, Christie went 3 for 4 on field-goal attempts (41, 42, & 33 yards). And then she was placed to be serving within the temple. So I agree with that. Theres nothing in scripture that states that Mary was an exception to this. H. Good day, Steve. While the wages of sin is death refers to spiritual death, that is the second death. This was the view that St. Augustine said, when he said that in Psalm 69:5, the mother is not married, but Israel and the brethren are the other sons of Israel who spurn him. General Manager New South Wales MRC Australia Sep 2017 - Dec 2018 1 year 4 months. And they did not want people following them. As the Apostle Paul wrote in his fourth chapter in his epistle to the Roman church, For what does Scripture say? Okay. 17. I agree with what that person teaches. No one ever says the gift of prophecy or divine revelation had returned after being absent for several centuries. Their issue is about the authority of the church. A fully independent, lay-run, 501(c)(3) ministry that receives no funding from the institutional Church, we rely entirely on the generosity of everyday people like you to keep this website going with trustworthy, fresh, and relevant content. Yeah. Well done. Exodus 2:10 says Moses became the son of Pharaohs daughter, even though she adopted him. I would say that this is a really important question and one for us to look at, that for Protestants and Catholics to have dialogue with one another and to get closer to the truth, I think its huge to be able to move from And what this debate is about, is about do these beliefs contradict Scripture? Agreed. They would be sons from another marriage. Check out our newest Lake Effect team. All right. Rather, biblically the church is every individual sinner who God has redeemed out of the world to be a slave to our master and Lord Jesus Christ, every individual sinner. So lets take a look at them. Im not sure why she would be surprised when told that shes going to have a son, given that under Jewish law, she and Joseph were free to engage in conjugal relations even right at that moment after the angel had left. I do talk about how much evidence that Greek word has for the immaculate conception, and I also note in my book its use in the Book of Sirach. Enoch and Elijah would be an example. Did they think that there was anything unbiblical about Mary being ever Virgin? For example, Denver seminary professor Joseph Dodson says, Scholars for at least three centuries have found value in comparing the deuterocanonical book of Wisdom and Romans (The Powers of Personification: Rhetorical Purpose in the Book of Wisdom and the Letter to the Romans). Steve said that if Mary and Joseph had remained virgins, they would violate late St. Pauls teaching about marriage in First Corinthians Seven. Catholic answers the firms that while Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin, yet she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam, such as death. This means not only was she conceived sinless, but remained sinless her entire life. However, Paul cant be saying that every single person commits personal sins because the Bible itself contradicts this. In Luke 3:1 its used to describe Herod Antipas and Herod Philip who had the same father, but they were born of different mothers, just as Jesus and his brethren were born of different mothers. What the church teaches is that infallibility does not cover preambles or evidences that are used to formulate a doctrine. But the problem with this argument is that it says in Luke 2:22-24, that its offered for their purification. And my focus was on the word, adelphi, which Trent really didnt focus on, on his opening statement. Do you know him? I put you on the spot with that, so theres no worries. Should we baptize babies or not? Okay. Instead, they describe Ezra bringing scrolls to Jerusalem and a process of later works being written that gradually developed into what they call a relatively complete Jewish Bible. But they also acknowledge some Jews accepted the deuterocanonicals as Scripture and that many Christian communities embraced these works as part of the Bible.. He became sinner. And I showed counter examples to that in each of those cases. And so if it doesnt contradict scripture, then it should be an issue between Catholics and Protestants of secondary importance, much like how people disagree about infant baptism. If any man should presume to make such an attempt, let him know that he will incur the wrath of almighty God and the blessed apostles, Peter and Paul. On March 5, 2008 Christie retired from professional football. This is not the rule. But it doesnt demand for that though. Steve Christie joins me this week to discuss how he got started in apologetics and why it is important. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management 631-755-8843. Okay. So if youre going to say Mary sinned because an offering was made, then youd also have to say that Jesus sinned as well. For example, if the Bible taught that Mary gave birth to other children, that she committed a sin, or that she was not assumed into heaven, the dogmas would be falsified. I mean, because honestly I believe that all three do contradict all of them. We receive no funding from the institutional Church and rely entirely on your generosity to sustain this website with trustworthy, accessible content. . Second Corinthians is clear, God made him who knew no sin to become sin for us. And I really appreciate that you are arguing against Catholicism based on what she teaches, right? Okay. Finally, lets look at the dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. I mean, you got me on the spot. And they talks about how they offered cakes on alters to Mary. Yeah, no, Im grateful for Steve to take part in this. I mean, to quote Jimmy Akin, when he was asked, Did all the early church fathers agree? He says, Boy, did they not all agree? So there was a lot that the early church disagreed on and there was things that they agreed on, things that Trent would agree on and theres things that they agreed on that I would actually believe in. It is never used for a female non-sibling relative in either Testament, nor in its Greek. Second Samuel 6:23 says, Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to or eos the day of her death. Which of course she did not have children after she died. And I think thats something that we do find. I dont know if I would. I think it might be best if I just go back and forth, so like one question for Steve and he answers, then Ill do a question for Trent. Lets take a look here. You have seven-, All right. St. Jerome, who was skeptical of the manuscript history behind these books, even tells us that at the Council of Nicaea the deuterocanonical work of Judith was considered part of the canon of Scripture. Married in 1976, the couple attended churches of several denominations along with some non-denominational churches. My argument is how the word adelphos is specifically is used to the New Testament Greek. Now, as I said, we do find this in other roughly contemporary literature. Hence, if anyone shall dare to think otherwise, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment, that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith and that he has been separated from the unity of the church. So if Andrew is Jonahs son, too, because Andrew is the brother of Peter, then why cant James, the brother of Jesus, also be the son of Mary? The other reason was that as a Canadian citizen, playing one game in the CFL, would be great way to finish his career. And this was a dogmatic constitution of the church by Pope Paul VI. Does it say that every single human being without exception has committed a sin? . The connection of apologetics with evangelism is best summarized by Oxford theologian Alister E. McGrath: " Now someone pointed out in the chat that only, what is it, 65% of people have submitted to my legality. Its also been mirrored on my channel, you can go and check that out. He currently resides in Bradenton, Florida, with his wife Kelly and their four daughters. And I showed that when I cited Acts 21, 25, as well as other examples around the same time period. So I think Catholics have a way to honor Mary as the mother of God without divinizing her. Great Scottish fiction writers who can conjour up a good descriptive s. Great Scottish fiction writers who can conjour up a good descriptive story. The night before that, we did an examination of conscience together. The last one to be accepted was the bodily assumption of Mary. So Ive got two more questions here. I also want to thank Trent for agreeing to our second debate and we hit over 800, I saw in there, which actually our first debate, so praise Jesus for that. So Ill send you a link, you could put that [inaudible 01:35:07] as well. However, the earliest evidence for this alleged event comes 600 years afterward, in the second century after Christ. All righty. We have to remember that. My screen name is BornAgainRN, so you can look at me that way. Second, this debate is not about the church fathers or Christian history. Give the person you disagree with a listen, really try to understand where theyre coming from because if after hearing their position, you still disagree with it, at least youll be better informed about what Protestants or Catholics believe so you can better engage them and resist the temptation to attack straw met. Well, oh, can I have a [inaudible 01:22:11]. Okay. Does the Bible teach that no human being has ever been assumed into heaven? She would have to have a heavenly body. Shameless plug. As Christian evangelist and author Mike Gendron wrote, The most deceptive counterfeit is the one that most resembles the genuine article. The same is true with detecting a counterfeit Mary, by first studying the genuine Mary of God Scripture, which does not teach these much later Roman Catholic dogmas, but just the opposite that she was, past tense, the Virgin mother of our Lord who redeemed and delivered her from her sins and who died and will be, future tense, bodily resurrected when Jesus comes to catch up as church. I mean, actually you and I would agree on this. I mean, today there are Roman Catholics, about 70% of American Catholics that [inaudible 01:32:21] substantiation, let me finish-. Stephen Christie has been at the top of the Real Estate Industry for 30 years. And I truly believe that because youre a nice guy. So its irrelevant. But there are many problems with this speculative argument. Not just saying that because theyre paying me, although that definitely helps. Sponsored by SaltLending.com and Epic.Tech. Some of the ways Trent and I would agree that a dogma contradicts scripture is explicitly, implicitly, or partially. Its nice to be able to go through all of these scripture passages. Edward John Carnell - was a prominent and influential Christian theologian and apologist. Because if you look in Strongs Greek Exhaustive Concordance and how it is used in the New Testament, which is what the debate is about not extra biblical work, it is used consistently and only to describe biological siblings. He is also a registered nurse and Steve discusses the challenges of balancing ministry and a career. You can finish your thought, if you want real quick, Steve. Their issue is not about Mary. WHY PROTESTANT BIBLES ARE SMALLER: A Defense of the Protestant Old Testament Canon - Kindle edition by Christie, Steve. One, the sole non-falsifiable and fallible authority of the Roman Catholic church, sola ecclesia, which teaches these Marian Dogmas versus a sole infallible authority of scripture sola scriptura, which contradicts them. With over 600 references, "Why Protestant Bibles are smaller" defends the Protestant Old Testament canon using mostly Catholic resources including the Vatican, EWTN, Catholic Answers, and quotations from contemporary Catholic authors like Gary Michuta ("Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger"), Jimmy Akin ("The Fathers Know Best"), and Trent . All right, Steve, whenever you begin, I Actually, just give me one second. We discovered it, carbon-dated it, thats the cross Jesus died on. Well, it uses the Greek word for brother. Finally, as H.G.L. But when the Bible talks about a firmament, that talks about an ancient, incorrect view of the heavens. Those that have been infallibly defined to be part of divine revelation. Okay. So to talk about things that came up in this debate, there are things that came up that were not debating, things like Sola Scriptura, the history of the Marian dogmas. When Matthew 1:25 writes, Joseph kept Mary a virgin until she gave birth to a son, the specific Greek words [foreign language 00:02:06] when translated until, is used consistently in the New Testament to refer to a change in condition. And you, just so people are aware, arent being mean or anything by doing that. While scripturally affirming Jesus is the son of God, they contradict scripture by claiming that Jesus is Michael the archangel, because scripture affirms Michael is a created being while Jesus is the eternal deity. He was a key contributor in the Bills comeback win against the Houston Oilers, in which Buffalo rallied from a 32-point deficit[2] to complete the largest comeback victory in NFL history. What we can find in the writings of the Church Fathers, however, are hundreds of citations of the deuterocanonical books as inspired Scripture. The dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary contradicts scripture in the following ways. 13K views, 25 likes, 6 loves, 7 comments, 12 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Lake Effect Furniture and Mattress: Have you seen the latest commercial yet? But when we look at something like Strongs for example, are you aware that Strongs defines adelphos and adelphe the same way? Are you going to answer the question, does it describe her giving birth to anyone else or say she gave birth to anyone else? Second thing I want to point out is you should consider joining our locals community. So Trent, what are some arguments that you hear Catholics put forth for any of the dogmas we are discussing today, that you wish they would stop putting forth because theyre bad arguments? But once again, we wouldnt assume Go ahead. When early followers of Jesus began to focus their adoration on Mary, rather than on Christ alone, Jesus responded, Rather blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it. Thank you. So thats also a bad argument. Why Is the Protestant Bible Shorter than the Catholic Bible? Chris Christie is one of six Catholics among the 17 candidates running for the Republican nomination in the crowded 2016 presidential race. Steve Christie - Apologetics315 Debate: Do Protestants Have the Correct Old Testament Canon? In Ineffabilis Deus, where immaculate conception is defined, the word unanimous appears once. Well, in your example, its talking about father. So my point would be that if we would show that devotion to the means through which Jesus died, why wouldnt we show that similar devotion through the means by which Jesus was born? He says, Trent, the proclamation on Marys immaculate conception says that the fathers unanimously believed that which is false. 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